From: Kirk Franklin (jkf@dev.urel.berkeley.edu)
Date: Fri Jul 11 2003 - 16:19:16 PDT
You can do CSS-P layouts in Netscape 4.x; it's just difficult and
maddeningly illogical, and it's legitimate to consider whether the increased
development time is worth it for a small share of site visitors.
I developed the Homecoming site in CSS-P that works in Netscape 4.7:
http://homecoming.berkeley.edu/
I link to style sheets with the basic formatting, colors, and typography and
oddball Netscape 4 specifications (like huge negative indents on lists,
paragraphs, and headings), then have more advanced browsers (Internet
Explorer 5 and up, Netscape 6 and up, and other modern browsers) import a
style sheet with the correct info.
(If you view the source you'll see it's slightly more complicated. We have
several sites that follow this basic template, so there are two sets of
style sheets. The coreStyles sheets define the page grid and typography
common to all of the sites using this template, and the homecomingStyles
sheets define the colors and other formatting unique to this site. This
makes it easy to develop new sites and modify existing ones.)
Real World Style has two- and three-column CSS-P layouts that work in
Netscape 4:
http://www.realworldstyle.com/
saila.com has a list of CSS layouts for Netscape 4:
http://www.saila.com/usage/layouts/nn4-layouts.shtml?front
Pixellated has a list of CSS that Netscape 4 can handle:
http://www.pixellated.org/nn4css.php
MacEdition has a guide to valid CSS that crashes Netscape 4:
http://www.macedition.com/cb/nn4crashers/index.html
The CSSShark has a section on CSS and Netscape 4.xx Issues:
http://www.mako4css.com/Issues.htm
Mark Howells Online has tips for CSS and Netscape 4:
http://www.mark.ac/writing/cssnn4.php
One important tip is to add a global JavaScript to your pages so Netscape 4
will reload the page if the browser window is resized (otherwise you lose
the CSS).
http://www.jennifermadden.com/162/examples/dhtml/resizeFix.html
Kirk Franklin
Web Technologist
University Relations
510-643-3580
> From: Adam Hochman <adam@media.berkeley.edu>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:42:35 -0700
> To: Anna Maurer <annam@uclink.berkeley.edu>, webnet-list@uclink4.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Webnet] browser requirement and guidelines.
>
> Hi Ann,
> I'd like to use CSS-P, but NN4.7 isn't too fond of that technology. I want
> to avoid using tables to define my presentation layer, but I may have to
> comprimise. C'est la vie.
> ~Adam
>
>
> At 03:30 PM 7/11/2003 -0700, Anna Maurer wrote:
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> Jeff's right - there aren't any campus minimum browser levels, other than
>> "make sure it's accessible as per ADA guidelines." Your miminum browser
>> level depends on what you want the site to accomplish, what users you
>> have, and what users you WANT to have. It's not too difficult these days
>> to have sites that "work" in NN4 (different CSSs work great). It's as Jeff
>> says - sites may not be as attractive as with later browsers, but the
>> users will still get the info.
>>
>> Regarding stats, website stats on what people are actually using are very
>> valuable. I still have a large number of Netscape/IE 4 and below
>> users. Given that we're into Netscape 7 and IE 6, they must have a *good*
>> reason not to upgrade.
>>
>> Regarding guidelines, check out what system/OS/browser your boss and your
>> boss's boss use at work and home. They're the ones approving your site.
>> <grin>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Anna
>>
>> At 02:18 PM 7/11/2003 -0700, Jeffery Kahn wrote:
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> Long and short of it: because the campus is decentralized when it comes to
>>> computer support, there are no campuswide guidelines dictating a minimum
>>> browser level.
>>>
>>> My group runs the Gateway and NewsCenter sites. The Gateway was developed
>>> several years ago and is readable by older browsers (and there is a text
>>> only
>>> version of each file for Section 508 folks). The NewsCenter, which debuted
>>> in
>>> February, uses CSS. We provide a separate style sheet for browsers
>>> predating
>>> IE5 and Netscape 5. But anybody using these antique browsers gets
>>> a visually
>>> poorer version of the NewsCenter than what those with a 21st century browser
>>> see.
>>>
>>> Jeff Kahn
>>>
>>> **********************************************
>>> Manager, UC Berkeley Gateway & NewsCenter sites
>>> Office of Public Affairs
>>> jbk@pa.urel.berkeley.edu
>>> 510-643-0706
>>> ***********************************************
>>>
>>> On 11 Jul 2003, at 13:26, Adam Hochman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I am new to the campus and I was wondering if there are any guidelines for
>>>> browser requirements on campus. Do most departments support NN 4.x.? Are
>>>> there any stats that I can look at? I am also looking for formal
>>>> guidelines created within individual departments on campus. Can anyone
>>>> share their coding, browser, usability, design, or documentation
>>>> guidelines? I am trying to create internal guidelines for my department
>>>> and this would be very helpful.
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adam Hochman
>>>> Web Project Manager
>>>> Educational Technology Services
>>>> UC Berkeley, California
>>>> 510-642-8593
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>>
>>>> Webnet information is available at <URL:http://webnet.berkeley.edu/>.
>>>
>>>
>>> **********************************************
>>> Jeffery Kahn
>>> Manager, UC Berkeley Gateway & NewsCenter sites
>>> Office of Public Affairs
>>> jbk@pa.urel.berkeley.edu
>>> 510-643-0706
>>> ***********************************************
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>>>
>>> Webnet information is available at <URL:http://webnet.berkeley.edu/>.
>>
>> **************************
>> Anna Maurer
>> Web Developer
>> UC Berkeley
>> Athletics and Rec Sports
>> 2301 Bancroft Way #4420
>> Berkeley, CA 94720-4420
>>
>
> Adam Hochman
> Web Project Manager
> Educational Technology Services
> UC Berkeley, California
> 510-642-8593
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following was automatically added to this message by the list server:
>
> Webnet information is available at <URL:http://webnet.berkeley.edu/>.
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