Re: Re: [Micronet] Upgrades and Security Requirements

I , for one, am a little appalled at all the sniping going on between "so
called Mac only" users and "windows admin folks". I have been supporting
Macs and Windows based pcs for about 20 years. At the Journalism school we
support a good mix (about 50-50) of both. Our servers are mainly Windows
based, although our web server is an Apple Xserve. Over the last 5 years we
have consistently budgeted for and planned for upgrades on both platforms.
Now I will be the first one to admit that I do not jump on the "latest and
greatest" upgrades until I have had a chance check them out first. But,
currently we are running Windows 2000 server and pro with all the latest
updates and Mac OS 10.3x with all the latest updates. We are planning on a
switch to Windows server 2003 in the near future. With the emphasis on
updates and security, both Microsoft and Apple have put these tasks to the
forefront. Microsoft will launch Windows Update Services (WUS)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/sus/default.mspx , later this
year for Server 2003. Apple is already using a pretty stable software
update system.
    I am a one person Systems dept. here supporting about 150 computers,
and about 200 students, faculty and staff. And, while I would love to have
the perfect method of keeping my system updated, it takes constant
supervision to keep them running in top form (it is my job after all) . Up
until recently, (about a month ago when sasser hit us all), my systems were
running at 99% uptime. After sasser and being blocked by Security, I had to
rebuild all of my Windows based Servers and workstations. My point is
this.... Instead of trying to put bandaids on old, unsupported systems, it
makes more sense to plan for the long haul and have a consistent upgrade
path. That includes purchases of both Apple and Windows pcs that have
upgrade paths built in. Get rid of the Macs that will not support the
newest software -- you will spend almost as much money trying to keep them
working than if you had purchase a new computer. As for Windows based
computers, purchase computer units that have the ability to be upgraded
over time. My windows machines have been upgraded for the last five years
-- they are clones of my design that included a buy back option from the
vendor to update motherboards, memory and cpu's. Which meant that I did not
have to reinvent the wheel every year.

   Personally it matters not what platform I use... they all work in my
environment. What does matter is how I am able to integrate the two
platforms together to utilize the best of what both platforms have to
offer. Which brings me to my last posting to these groups. I only recieved
one message back. I find it hard to believe that no one on campus is trying
to do what we are trying.... soooooo.... I will post it again... here.

" Has anyone out there integrated a Mac Xserver into a Windows domain. We
just upgraded to Mac Server 10.3 Panther and it gives us an opportunity to
use the Ldap and Active directory features of Windows to allow Mac users to
logon with windows based permissions, etc. Apple is very sketchy about
setting this up and Microsoft has even less info. If anyone has set this up
successfully, please email either myself or Scot Hacker
(shacker@berkeley.edu)."

I apologize for this very long diatribe, but sometimes I feel like the
solution is simple: Just get rid of the old equipment and standardize on
the new equipment whether that be Mac or Windows or Linux or Unix or whatever.

Thanks,

Roy

At 06:16 PM 6/23/2004, Mark Ingles wrote:
>On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:18 PM, Johnathon P Kogelman wrote:
>
>>(is there really anyone left on Campus that solely supports Mac?).
>
>Yes. There are people on campus who only support Macs. Believe it or not,
>some departments are entirely Mac. The tendency on campus, with
>Windows-dominated thinking, is to assume that Macs have the same 2-3%
>presence as the outer world. This translates into ignoring them like the
>Campus AD did last month with the NTLMv1 abatement. They didn't test how
>NTLMv2 would affect Mac connectivity with Windows shares until after the
>change took place and people complained that they couldn't connect. There
>would be more tech cohesion on campus, and more user productivity, if
>Windows admin folks took Macs more seriously. As Michael Sinatra pointed
>out in July 2003 (see message below), 15% of campus is using a Mac.
>
>
>> From: michael@rancid.berkeley.edu
>> Subject: Re: [MAGNet] administrative staff using Macs?
>> Date: July 22, 2003 12:12:54 PM PDT
>> To: gmerritt@uclink.berkeley.edu
>> Cc: magnet-list@uclink.berkeley.edu
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Greg Merritt wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Our administrative office staff (accounting, payroll,
>>>personnel, grants, etc.) here at the Institute of Transportation
>>>Studies use mostly Macs. What other departments/groups on campus are
>>>predominantly Macintosh for administrative functions?
>>
>>This discussion reminded me of something Tom H. asked me to do a long
>>while back, which is to provide a *rough* estimate of the number of
>>Apple/Mac devices on campus using CNS's ARP cache data. So here's what I
>>did:
>>
>>CNS maintains "snapshots" of each day's ARP data over the past six months.
>>I looked at
>><<http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/oui/index.shtml>http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/oui/index.shtml>
>>and found
>>all of the registered MAC address prefixes that belong to Apple Computer.
>>I then chose some representative days and searched for the set of Apple
>>MAC (pardon the pun) addresses for each day. I removed duplicates and
>>compared the resulting number to the days full data (again with duplicates
>>removed). Duplicates would be caused by one machine changing networks/IP
>>addresses during the day, changing airbears networks or getting a new dhcp
>>address durning the day, etc. I then computed the percentage of Apple MAC
>>addresses to the total. This would represent the percentage Apple/Mac
>>devices powered on and connected to the network at any time of the day.
>>
>>I picked some representative days and here's what I found (each day is
>>measured roughly from midnight to midnight):
>>
>>Monday, July 21, 2003: 3283 Apple, 20423 total (16.1%)
>>Saturday, July 19, 2003: 1811 Apple, 14241 total (12.7%)
>>Thursday, June 5, 2003: 3404 Apple, 20107 total (16.9%)
>>Tuesday, April 15, 2003: 4227 Apple, 27077 total (15.6%)
>>Tuesday, April 30, 2003: 4212 Apple, 27226 total (15.5%)
>>Monday, March 17, 2003: 4127 Apple, 26615 total (15.5%)
>>Saturday, February 8, 2003: 2338 Apple, 19351 total (12.1%)
>>Thursday, Jan 23, 2003: 4128 Apple, 26444 total (15.6%)
>>Thursday, Dec 19, 2002: 3445 Apple, 22457 total (15.3%)
>>Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002: 4100 Apple, 26593 total (15.4%)
>>
>>CAVEATS:
>>
>>1. We do not poll ARP data for the entire campus. Specifically, the
>>modems, EECS, University Extension, Space Sciences Lab, University Health
>>Services, and UC Printing are not polled, for a variety of technical
>>reasons. Also any host that is behind some sort of NAT box or non-briding
>>firewall will NOT show up in the ARP cache. The survey DOES include the
>>Res Halls.
>>
>>2. Many network devices show up in the ARP cache and some have multiple
>>MAC addresses that may or may not show up in the cache. CNS has roughly
>>1500 manageable network devices on campus. These MAC address do not
>>represent actual USER HOSTS, so the percentage of Apple/Mac devices
>>compared to actual user hosts may actually be higher.
>>
>>3. Some Apple/Mac devices may be using third-party networking devices,
>>which would NOT show up in this survey as an Apple/Mac device. It's also
>>possible that some Apple-branded devices *may* use third-party chipsets,
>>which may or may not show up as an Apple MAC address. This may imply that
>>the number of Apple devices is higher than the percentages show, but it's
>>not completely unknown what effect this has, if any.
>>
>>4. This survey also includes network-attached printers and other devices.
>>It's possible that an all-mac shop uses an HP network printer or that an
>>all-PC shop uses an Apple network printer, but I have no idea how this
>>might skew the overall results, or if anyone cares.
>>
>>END OF CAVEATS
>>
>>The results look pretty consistent, with an obvious drop-off on weekends
>>of the total number of connected hosts. (It's nice to see that some
>>people turn their computers off over the weekend, thereby saving the
>>University money and making it (slightly?) less likely that we'll be
>>taking pay cuts soon.) Interestingly, the Macintosh percentage drops on
>>the weekend also. I draw the following possible conclusions from this,
>>with varying credibility:
>>
>>1. A higher percentage of Apple/Mac computers are used for administrative
>>applications; hence, the higher weekday percentage.
>>
>>2. Apple/Mac users are more environmentally and pay-cut conscious than
>>their Windows and (especially) Unix bretheren and sisteren. They are
>>therefore more likely to turn off their computers or put them into
>>power-saving mode on weekends.
>>
>>3. Apple/Mac users are more possessive of their weekend leisure time and
>>are less likely to come to work on weekends. (I am sure some Mac fans
>>will say that they don't *have* to come to work on weekends because
>>they're so productive on their Macs.)
>>
>>You can draw your own conclusions, too.
>>
>>michael
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>For information about MAGNet, its meetings and events, and its
>>mailing list, including information on subscribing and unsubscribing,
>>see the MAGNet Web site at
>><<http://magnet.berkeley.edu/>http://magnet.berkeley.edu/>.
>
>
>Mark Ingles
>643-3107
>Departmental On-site Computing Support
>264 Evans Hall <http://docs.berkeley.edu/>http://docs.berkeley.edu/
>
><br>
></blockquote></x-html>

Roy A. Baril
Director of Technology
U. C. Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism
121 North Gate Hall
Berkeley, CA. 94720
(510) 643-9215

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Received on Thu Jun 24 10:22:02 2004